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Yearling pack rank rules change
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Hey guys! I'm looking for opinions on something that I've been thinking about c: When it comes to yearlings the rules are that they are supposed to be below the subordinates (adults) and they can't be an alpha unless the leader steps down and they're the second or if the leader drops off and the second forfeits their right for the alpha. I agree with the rule for the alpha because, realistically, it's very hard for a yearling to obtain that rank especially if the alpha is strong and fit. But, in regards to the subordinates rule I propose we change it to allow yearlings to challenge up. I've been doing some research and there's an instance of this happening to a wild pack here (don't worry it's detailed in the first page so you don't have to go searching).

I understand that it's stated that yearlings are ranked the way they are because they're still learning, but whether or not they're still learning doesn't necessarily mean that their natural urge to be dominant or submissive will change. I'm genuinely curious about everyone's thoughts on this matter!
I kinda like he idea. I mean yearlings are basically the same size/weight as a fully grown adult wolf so physical wise I can see them being able to challenge but depending on how well developed your yearling is, can they really win a fight to take the rank? I definitely don’t see them being an alpha but maybe we can have that based on the pack. Individual packs can decide whether they want to make a rule stating that they can challenge for rank, I think that will make a pack more unique if they choose to implement that.

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Arla and Emma are the ish and made my pretties!
Koda will most likely always be accompanied by Chiron unless otherwise stated, or requested.

Yearlings are also known to go off an start their own packs so I don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to challenge up the ranks? I also like the idea of packs being able to decide if they would allow a yearling to challenge up or not
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I like the idea of choice. Personally I like the period of not being able to climb through the adults bc it encourages more interaction/rivalry between yearlings and also encourages players to focus on other things with their kiddos. Not that anyone can't do both! But I don't know, it's a period of mental growth that's important to the woofs and boundaries can be really important for that.

Of course this is really subjective input, I don't have any solid reasons either way but choosing between packs, like Hero said, could help add even more character to the pack/leadership.
I actually disagree with this, because I think it really puts new members at a disadvantage. I think that in general, an old, well-established RP can be intimidating already -- if yearlings that have been alive since birth can challenge up, then new people are at even more of a disadvantage. The site thrives on new people and new characters, after all (and this doesn't just disadvantage new people but new wolves that weren't born on site, which are also important, because eventually it would be an inbred CF without new families and new wolves).

Additionally, as your local biologist, I want to point out that isn't a scientific or peer reviewed article -- and to that end, alpha/omega roles aren't really 'in vogue'. There's a breeding pair that usually lead the pack, and more fluid hierarchy (hierarchy, but not in the same alpha/beta/ect that's inherent in culture now).
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Ah I was waiting for Ace to pop up c: thanks for that info. I was actually going to tag you in question about the article but forgot to. I do see your point about the new members, but at the same time of new members come in and their characters have the potential to be challenged up by even yearlings I feel like it could be incentive for them to develop their characters more? Also, I would like to propose another option that yearlings have to get permission from their alphas/alpha before they can challenge up. Sort of like how yearlings are now able to earn roles, they would have to earn the right to challenge up by their leaders. Sort of like how they have to prove themselves to the leaders to get the role they would have to prove their worth before they’re allowed to challenge up. They would also be required to have a certain level of development, pack, and skill points.
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I mean permission is interesting, but I can't really foresee someone saying 'no', haha -- generally because we're pretty chill as a community.

And I realize the intention might be incentive, BUT that doesn't stop just the sheer size and "behindness" from being overwhelming.  If they don't have a foothold to even 'get in the door', so to speak, they might not even join.

Additionally, adult wolves have more life experience.  Joining with an adult and having that starting LP is already hard.  I think having yearlings beat you up because you just haven't been here for a while is even harder, because how do you explain that ICly?  It's part of the system that's really difficult.  If yearlings are allowed to challenge up, I think they need to be handicapped severely when facing adults to account for this (especially since things like experience don't exist to the current fight system, and I don't think it's worth a system overhaul).
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